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Find other positive topics on the gay issues.

  "Gay is not sin"

September 1, 1998

Response to Paulk's recent publicity

From: gaysforjesus


Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:14:22

Subject: Is this the right e-mail address for you?

Message-ID: <>

Hi . . .

I see you are enjoying moments in the sun? Really interesting having your face thrown in front of mine. An inside reporter said you are just as queeny as you ever were and she was right. From a mile away anyone can tell you are very very very much still the same old drag queen you always was, but now in hiding.

I can't believe the lies you and your what ever she is are telling the news agencies lately. It is very interesting to learn the after those anti-gay ministries listed in your TV debut that advertised an 800 number which was a misprint and what was it 76,000 some dollars ad space brought 50 callers in to an electronics firm and most of them were against the anti-gay ministries. I have the article. The same straight paper had another article that went in dept about your whatever wife. Had some good details about the lies you guys are telling the press these days. I just got through reading apparently an update on Exodus history. I see how you can easily white was over Bussee and Cooper as false founders. Funny the real fact is they indeed were called to start the ministry by Melodyland and lead it for 4 years. Hardly a fly by night founder/leader. Another interesting fact. Your history states that now you screen applicants for leadership. What a lie or a hipocriscy. I have read nearly 100 ex-gay leaders/founders testimonies and many come after this so called policy change. None even came close to having a background in religion and all were whirlwinded up to leadership as yourself. All of course had extremely horrible childhoods and nearly all (my calculations seems to make it 99%) were bisexuals. It seems that Exodus' policy is to have bisexuals lead ex-gay ministries because they last longer the gays. The history admits that many ex-ministries failed (though when I was corresponding with you and some others you and they were adamant that success rate was high) in the early years, so now this new policy to make sure failure is less. Jesus has no power, huh? Only power to stay alive is man's power to organize a policy to guarantee enough people to last slightly longer. The fact is where Exodus leaves off others continue following up on your clients. You can't wish that away and these follow-ups continue to report 98% failure rate over time.

I see a list of articles presented by leaders of ex-gay ministries on Exodus site. One I know very well is Doug Houck. I have met him several times to interview him. I watched his TV testimony where he said he was delivered completely. Years later he was caught in the act and fired from his position at Metonia. I have not followed up so I don't know his current state. I know He was told to go get back right with God first.

Why aren't there ex-gay testimonies that fit gays? Why are all the testimonies so far fetched away from normal gay life? 600 million gays and your history brags about 400 delegates to your conventions? I went to MCC and Dignity both had over a 1000 and this was 15 yrs. ago. PFLAG as far as I can tell is only one organization that is larger than all the ex-gays put together and much more stable. They really have rooted themselves in the Word. While ex-gay leaders has yet to present a single backup to any verse they try to use against gays. Your history never got involved with the Word and backing it up. FOCUS ON THE FAMILY??????????? The only name your history mentioned in that paragraph setting. What a joke. There is tons of research into James Dobson's slide away from Biblical teaching into secularism. I have watched Dobson for decades. I seen his change and the reports flow in as to he getting into very un-Bible principles and supporting Mason goals.

I read a testimony from Exodus site at the point where it says testimony then your testimony. I could see one mention of being gay or delivered from it. This person saw the Exorcist movie and when they saw the face of the demon possessed girl they apparently got demon possessed themselves and had a horrible time dealing with their "strange" feelings that started (no mention of turning to gay). What a bazaar place for such a testimony.

There are 600 million gays. Why is it so hard for the Church to hear gay testimonies? Tell me how often have you invited gay Christians to tell about their lives in Christ Jesus. You are so pleased to give your sick childhood to the world. You were so blind. You admit praying to God for help and soon after you got a wonderful lover and just look at the beautiful woman that God made you into and how he blessed you with that career. But you ran your old pity tapes and went back into the lie that gay is sin, this time ending up in an ex-ministry. I wished in your testimony just somewhere I could have read how you searched and search God's word and every source tools for researching God's word and searched for the reasons the Church started using those 13 verses to condemn gays.

You haven't a clue what God is about to do. You still think he will burst out and bring many gays to become straight. One person wrote on your site that she had a dream that she saw rooms full of counselors and another place where tons of gays were accepting Christ. She never elaborated that these gays came because gay was sin, that seemed to be assumed by her when she woke. I suppose you think gay Christians don't have such dreams. All my life I have had dramatic dreams and when I accepted Christ 24.5 yrs. ago that even increased. Many prophetic and even the same dream in many way as that woman, but also the details that gays are going to come in large numbers because God will openly show he loves them and is not asking them to change and be straight. Had you cared to spend a great deal of time in the gay Churches you could see a pattern. God is training gays, most don't know it, but many do understand, for a coming ministry to straights. So many straights are going to come into a great shakinging of their faith that too many will fall away and God will send gay Christians to help them back to faith. This will have a tremendous effect for those Christians that thought they had lost Christ and had sinned so greatly helping antichrist to power. They will see the very people they have so strongly believed was living in sin coming with open arms with complete forgiveness to them their persecutors.

John Paulk wake up your time in the sun is coming to an end. Who will be their to pick up the pieces? Will Anne? Will the Church? When I read that history article I saw so much defense added end. Why is Bussee and Cooper such a touchy subject with Exodus. Why can Davies boast so never having had gay sex and calls himself an ex-gay when arriving at an ex-gay ministry and thrown into power saw a woman and got turned on by his own testimony and married her. What false testimonies. Davies and the rest of you may really believe you are from the "gay world" and so delivered. I bet I know more about ex-gay leaders than you do. How many ex-gay testimonies have you read? I have also corresponded with you and many others and some at length. As much as you would wish you represent deliverance or that gays can change you just can't get objective. Stand back and observe. If you are right then all gays will fit in nicely. Like I always say there are 600 million gays and to date not a single ex-gay ministry or anti-gay church has allowed gay Christians to give their testimonies. SICK gays "bisexuals" needs therapy I agree, but that give you no place to say because you were so mentally sick growing up that you can force all gays into your sickness. You were really pathetic child you know and so were 100% of the ex-gay leaders/founder's testimonies I have read. That history stated some 100 ministries now fall under the covering of Exodus. Well if I read 100 or so testimonies then that about covers it. However, there is another batch of ex-gays ministries that also adds some leader's testimonies as well.

Isn't it the pits that so many churches won't allow gay Christians to give account of Jesus Christ in their lives? Such a one sided lop sided picture of gays is presented by a large portion of the Church. Why can a gay person stand and tell their testimony leaving out any reference to being gay and it is so well received by the Church? Most gays aren't open about their gayness while attending their church and during testimony time tell as many in the congregation does what good things God is doing in their lives. As long time members of their church their testimonies are well received with plenty of confirmation from the straight members that they accept God's work in their lives and have no doubts they are Christian as the years go by. Why then if they should say one day that they are gay that they have to be so rejected. Many times decades of church service have gone by and so many complemented them about how much they see Jesus in their lives. I speak first hand in my case as I have told you at length before.

Please tell me what you are afraid of! Why must people like you hate gays so much? If you as you say love gays and think they need help to change, then why not listen to their reason why they believe you are wrong? I read much of your articles in Exodus and I just plain can't find anything but covering up the issues. Bussee and Cooper are Exodus' past like it or not. Why say 4 years of their leadership can be washed under the table without giving references to the facts. Both were college grads to boot. How quickly homophobes charge failed ex-gays with all kinds of things. What about Quest's 14 year leader? He also formatted HA's doctrine and steps still used today.

Doug Houck mentioned above you should know very well as Exodus headquartered in his building for a while. His church is the church of the advanced people as I have explained in our previous correspondence. Exodus history states just more recently you are coming to grips with multi-denominations. MCC did this at the beginning with little hoopla. Exodus has to face an already entrenched Church wide doctrine of hating your brothers if not of the same church.

Why do so many ex-gay leaders have Catholic school backgrounds? You can't hide church from gays as they grew up in a straight world and knows every detail of straight problems however well intended, but you as an ex-gay has spent know time with gay Christians. Though God blessed you (something you rejected) it was still in the bar scene and I sure did not read that you spent one minute in a gay church let alone studying what gay Christians learned when they research for their life's sake. I hear all this stupidity about ex-gays that fail are just flaky Christians at best.. What pure nonsense. They indeed put their life on the limb for Christ not wanting to take a chance that they were living in sin and figuring the Church should know what its talking about since its 2000 yrs. old, spend a year or 2 and sometimes more trying to see if God really wants them to change and be straight. The most stupid thing in the world is when a bisexual starts living their straight side and say they are delivered then condemn all gays based on this false deliverance.

Ex-ex-gays usually have the personal experience of committing their whole life to ex-gay ministry teachings concerning gay is sin. They learn it upside down and backwards. Then come to terms with the facts that gay is not sin or that God simply does not love them enough to change them and so they are left without hope. You and I know God in fact does love them enough to die for them and did 2000 yrs. ago. So what went wrong? Is Jesus a liar and won't deliver gays? Are all these failed ex-gays bound for hell in the first place? I know you really believe your Exodus statistics that you have a large success rate. It is so sick to read about so many bisexuals living their straight side so making an appearance of lasting a few extra years. I bet beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are still as gay as they come. I bet if you were to be really truthful you would admit to it. I also read where your history doctrine solved this problem by calling it temptation and not being gay. Why do you think it was a problem enough for you all to fight so much till you came up with a way to stay gay but call it by another name? Now you came have all the gay thoughts you like and call it temptation that you can overcome (at least for a season).

Tell me why when online chatting with ex-gays and then corresponding with them, no matter how harsh I may come down on them as to they have not change and so I should never hear from them again, but wa la, there is new e-mail from them and they admit they are far from becoming straight and still must struggle constantly? Please, if you know any ex-gays with decent testimonies, that aren't bisexual, that haven't gone through Catholic school, that spent time before becoming ex-gay studying the Bible concerning gays from as it were the pro-gay side (to elaborate, the tons of in-depth studies at exists from very well educated scholars with doctorates in history especial Bible history and the related historical time periods, plus all the numerous other independent studies available) or someone that has at least spent some quality time checking out some of this kind of material before running to a homophobic pastor like you did, that hasn't had such a horrible childhood such as yours. I would love to see someone's testimony that fits real life gays; not sick bisexuals like yourself and your wife. The lie ex-gay ministers tell is all gays are this kind of mentally sick and deep in victim set. It is just sick to hear supposed delivered gays calling themselves ex-gay give a testimony that does not even come close to most gays. The human condition offers a great deal of childhood problems. Straight children have a horrible time growing very often. Why can't ex-gay leader be smart enough to compare with a placebo group to confirm if the horrible childhood is a valid claim to a standard condition of gays? I can tell you plain and simple straight children's horrible childhoods are a dime a dozen. The therapists' schedule is full because of the damage done in straight children now adults. Can't you balance your scales of justice? You were a sick kid, don't judge all gay kids sick because you were sick. What lies are available about gays. Last night I watch a program on THE LEARNING CHANNEL TLC about how humans developed there way to meet sexually. It was pretty pathetic to say the least. Trying to guess what was going on in someone's mind 50,000 yrs. ago. (as Christians we know it had to be 6,000 yrs. ago). The part in question was they also through out a theory concerning all gays and what was involved. Straight men look for a beautiful woman because that means strong babies, women look for men that appear built enough to catch food and smart enough to take care of them. The went on to say gays were all like women and very fem (you know like you are). Isn't that disgusting? What facts do they base that on? I will tell you. It is the same facts you base gay is sin on and that is you were a sick child and so therefore all gays were sick children. This it what therapist used to say about gays because the only gays they saw were sick gays. Finally a smart therapist who had some gay friends suddenly realized they were gays out there that were not seeing therapists and they seem to be able to handle life quite well even with such horrible church persecution and families disowning them and such. She then took on herself to begin a real study on this and that is why you hate the American Therapist Assoc. because they say gay is perfectly normal for gays based on strong fact and research. Narth does not base homosexual study on research non-sick gays. That is why you love them. You loved that 1st homophobic pastor you went to and told him your secret because he agreed with you that gay is sin. You loved the others and groups like ex-gay ministries because you surround yourself with those that believe like you. Truth is not involved here, because if it was then I would have read in your testimony that you have a sincere desire to know the truth. Sincere desire does not mean you only review anti-gay material and the pro-gay material you get from anti-gay sources. I have read many such sources and they certainly have not gotten their info from real facts.

You are part of a cult, because you do not involve yourself with the otherside of the story. Everyword I write you sit there and twist it to confirm you are right. If I say I guarantee you I can prove gay is not sin, you would not take it up on me. I have a very specific way of proving gay is not sin. It requires the one wanting that proof to stand up in their faith and make some things happen. The proof will manifest publicly in front of whoever is present. A real pastor (I don't care if he is thoroughly convinced gay is sin or not) must preside over this event in his church and with his congregation and agree to very routine Christian worshipping procedures, nothing unusual except the results. The results will be open manifestation from God so all can see God himself answering your question if it is sin or not. If he says it is sin then WOW what a wonder for your cause against gays. But what would you do if the results show you it is not sin. God will move. I can also guarantee almost completely that you do not want God to show you one way or the other, that would disrupt your present position and you want control of this yourself. You speak of God, but behave the opposite. Exodus history brags of growth?????????????? 1976 to 1998????? 400 delegates??????????????????????? Gay Christians over flow the convention places they meet at, why?

Back to that stupid human sexual thing on TLC. They said all gays have many 1000s of sexual partners. (James Dobson says 60 to 80 a night). I really want to know where they get this figure. They said straight don't have so many. Later in the program they contradicted themselves and said the beautiful well built straight men had many sexual partners. We of course have the famous sports figures that boast of as much as 2500 sexual partners. Still lie after lie about gays, WHY? Shouldn't you as an ex-gay Christian want to help truth get out??? When you here such lies why don't you say no it is not so gays however sinful it is are not having these numbers of sexual partners. Humans do indeed go through a number of sexual partners in their lifetime. Most ministers today never bring up there past dating as they preach to the younger generation to not have sex before marriage. What hypocrites. They had plenty of sexual partners so why do they now condemn the new generation?? Bible is the Bible. It says the way you judge others is the way you will be judged. If you tell someone never to have sex till marriage or they will reap what judgement that requires. Kind of like Catholic schools do and your pastor does. Then you will be judged for every partner you had. The issue is not that having sex out of marriage is sin, because that issue is in God's hands. History shows you that we never had a time that sex wasn't ever mostly done right. All time had big problems with it. Everyone should be in hell, but everyone isn't and in fact it usually is a pretty non-issue by ones deathbed concerning ones youth. Just like adultery, the Earth would be sparsely populated if people who committed adultery were killed. Yet, it is unmentioned, unthought of by the end of ones life as they prepare to meet their maker. When you judge people you should look at their whole life (birth to death) and compare the world's population over the generations. Over all God's word is performed and his Laws accomplished for they are written on his people's hearts. The Church wants to judge NOW today ones sins. Therefore God will JUDGE NOW today their sins. This will happen very soon. I call it the 1260 days of breaking the power of God's people.

(disclaimer on modern versions, sorry hope to replace versions with KJV, all modern versions are satan counterfeits)

Dan 12:7

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half (1260 days), and when they have made an end of breaking in pieces the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. (ASV)

Rev 11:3

3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." (NIV)

God is giving you again an opportunity to come back to his blessing he gave you that you rejected. You can never be the same, but even a better life awaits you. God is giving his Church one last chance before:

Lev 26:28

28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. (KJV)

Verse 28 is a very serious time for the Church and it begins on the 1st day of the 1260 days. Paul is talking to Christians and tells them of those days:

Rom 2:16

16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. (NIV)

Jesus is so good, why do you persecute the innocent? What have they done to you? You go on TV and state lies about gays and assume you have God's blessings? If you want to play ex-gay then don't lie publicly about real gays. Because you had a sorrowful childhood, don't blame gays. You should get real with Exodus history. It is full of lies. I have been around the block a few times and know a few things. White washing Bussee & Cooper under the carpet does not help your cause, but there in lies a festering sore that will one day erupt on you as some clients ask questions. I know the ministry that was very involved with getting out Bussee's story. Tell me why Exodus trashes it, not by name maybe, but by lies about the beginning of Exodus. Why is truth so hard for ex-gay leaders? Why can't your clients know real facts? Many of them so weak. Look at yourself and the 100 ex-gay leaders' personal testimonies I read. You were all so weak and every one of you walks right smack in the heart of homophobia and loved it, because it matched your sick feeling about yourself. Why can't you tell your clients that their are 10s of millions of healthy gay Christians and many hundreds of millions healthy other gays. Because the Church invented the anti-gay doctrine 700 yrs. ago it never gives any Christian anywhere the freedom to persecute and lie about gays to maintain that hatred of gays.

Two sentences from a the Student Reference Library:

"But with the recodification of canon law under the influence of but with the recodification of canon law under the influence of Thomas Aquinas, new attitudes set in. Homosexual behavior was thereafter excoriated as a heinous sin. , new attitudes set in. Homosexual behavior was thereafter excoriated as a heinous sin."

This is a fact that no matter how much you think gay is sin actually took place. Before that time there just was almost no condemnation of gays. This should be very much of interest to one that commits his whole life to a ministry dedicated to changes gays to straight because you believe it is sin. Why didn't the nations condemn gays before? Why did they wait till the 13th &14th centuries to make laws against gays. Why did the Church wait till Thomas Aquinas change everything in the State & Church?

What is far more important why is Jesus with so many gays. You can't wish gay Christian churches away nor the Christians that attend, nor all the gay Christians in all the churches across the land that stay in their church in spite of its often condemnation of gays. Try counting gay Christians. You just can't. It is easy to count ex-gays just wait a little while and you down to 2% that seems successful, not the 78% Exodus boast of. I would be quite sure as you were talking to the TV camera here in Seattle that thoughts crossed your mind that would be saying you still are fighting your gay side of your bisexuality.

Just remember as so many, over 300,000 homophobic Christians, say they are praying for me that God will change me to straight and to what ever other extent to that general effect. I will be praying for you specifically and the other leaders of ex-gay ministries. Let's see whom God hears. The 300,000 have been praying 12 years or so. I have off and on prayed with little direction on this issue, but lately with direction.

I may not sound like a great loving person talking to you, but I am and this message to you is for you sake, not mine. You don't have much place to judge this email for you have spoken such lies publicly into the homes of many gays who are innocent victims of yours by the words that come from your mouth. Your words are lifeless giving false hope to those seeking help with the most fragile things of their lives. You based you ministries on disinformation and covering up the truth and preventing access to the truth when ever possible. You tell client no doubt according to Exodus policy that pro-gay agenda is based on promoting an evil lifestyle and they just twist the Bible and facts. You train them in lies, so it will be harder to find the truth, yet in spite of this 98% of your clients fail. When you or those like you say I twist the word, you forget a few things. It is I that you are talking to and I know what I am saying and the sources I came to know this info. ON the other when I say you twist the word and facts are because of your very lack of study. History is there and when you reject it that is your problem not the truth's problem. When report say gays have 1000s of sex partners, that is an outright lie. A few people may have that many and still the kings and queens of sexual immorality belongs to straight. If I send and talk about tons of backup and even direct you or other homophobic to where you all can see it for yourselves you call it twisting scripture, but when I beg you for the tiniest piece of backup, you say God hates it and that is that or to that effect. WHY can't any ex-gay leader of homophobic scholars produce backup. Why do 100% of the homophobes I talk with (maybe 400,000 plus) all refuse to give backup of any kind? All I can get from you all is God hates it and a verse or 2 of the 13 verses used since 1300 AD to condemn gays. No GREEK, no HEBREEK, no history, no testimony that appropriately fit most gays from ex-gays, nothing at all. Jesus is the truth, the Way, & the Life so why can't homophobe produce the truth about gays? I can spend months giving you facts about gay is not sin. I have nothing to worry about, the most difficult concerns to show if gay is sin or not can be found out with some researching. Homophobes differs across the board on so many things in depicting gay to be sin. Independent research from anyplace remains fairly consistent on most areas. WHY? Why don't you give me a tour of Exodus, show me your workings, show me your behavior modification techniques, and show me you sliding fee schedule. Show me your 78% success records and how you come up with it. One of my sources worked for Teen Challenge in SF in the ex-gay outreach. She came to know 100 ex-gay men, and after leaving for a while returned to find non remained. She personally knew them (all 100) She had their addresses and went to their homes. She found 98 of them all back into being gay and those who were Christian were far better Christian than ever b4, those that were weaker simply gave up on God at that time because he never changed them and it was lie after lie anyway about gays. 2 she couldn't find but heard from them and they too were still gay. 100% success concerning Jesus is not asking the gay person to change and be straight. Its people like you that are. But 100% failure rate for the ex-gay ministry. Do I have bad information or hearsay?????? Or does information direct from the one that knew the 100 men telling me to my face have creditability. In your eyes is Teen challenge a flaky outfit? Why was their failure rate so high. Had they not adopted Exodus policy to hire bisexual who had terrible childhoods and gotten married and got Bible training from homophobic school or workshops? This way at least there is a fighting change that if their testimonies included all the same bad childhood, but includes "solid Bible training" and at least a yr. as ex-gay that they would last longer than the many failed ministries? Funny Exodus hasn't really followed its own policy.

Well enough of this, I know you like you power in the sun and real humans don't matter much to you. You kind of love the attention you are getting. You have a ready made audience of homophobic churches who don't want to know you faith statement or care much if it differs from theirs, just so long as they can rid their gay problems onto ex-gays ministry instead of using their call in ministering God's word they send them to you and those like you who have know pastor's call and hardly any Bible. Enjoy your power for this season, remember the season is about to change.